Friday, July 28, 2006

If the Messiah Came, Why Isn't There Peace?

Good question.

Let me quote Michael Brown:
“According to the biblical timetable, things are right on schedule, and Jesus is doing everything the Messiah was to expected to do up until this point. The problem is that you have an incomplete understanding of the biblical picture of the Messiah. According to the prophet Malachi, the Messiah would bring purification and purging before he brought peace. He would execute judgment before he established justice. Many would not be able to endure the consequences of his coming. This is written in our Hebrew Bible! For many of our people, his coming would be bad news, not good news. Our Scriptures also teach that the Messiah was to be a priestly King, like David. As a royal Priest, he came to make atonement for sins and offer forgiveness and reconciliation to Israel and the nations. As King, his dominion expands every day, as he rules over those who embrace him as Messiah. Soon he will return and establish his kingdom on the earth, destroying the wicked and bringing world wide peace. So, what you expected to be the first act of the play will be actually be the final act!” (See Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, vol. 1, pp. 69-88.)

I posted in one of the comments section, that for the Messiah to establish peace right away, the Messiah would have to wipe both you and I off the face of the earth and blot our names out from the Book of Life.

The first coming of the Messiah was so we can be written into the Book of Life.

"Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place." (Daniel 9:24)

As Isaiah wrote: "He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5)

Paul writes: "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus [the Messiah]." (Romans 5:1)

Jesus is coming again. The next time to establish peace everywhere.

Those with faith in the Messiah can say with David:
Blessed is he whose transgression is gorgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceipt. (Psalm 32:1-2)


Anonymous Moshe ben Avraham said...

So before the messaih comes death and destruction come before hand to the none believers? Funny that is definetly not in Jewish literature. I think it is more like world peace and no death and destruction. Tnank HaShem I am Jewish. I couldn't live with myself if that is what there is to look forward too. Thats like justifying Hitler's actions, excpet with G-d's approval. He has official approval to murder all people that don't believe in the Messiah. Hope your ready to accept the blood bath.

7/28/2006 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger Chad said...

And Moshe, with nothing constructive to say, plays the Hitler card. Shame on you, Moshe ... you cheapen the deaths of six million Jewish people by using them as an attempted guilt trip. And you thank HaShem that you're Jewish? Hope you're ready to accept the judgement from Him for such despicable lashon hara.

7/28/2006 03:12:00 PM  
Blogger geoffrobinson said...


Consider the Tanakh in the many instances when God executes judgment.

All who were in Noah's arc were safe. All without perished.

All who placed the blood of the Passover lamb upon the doorposts were passed over. All who did not faced the judgment.

Read the Psalms. In Psalm 1, the wicked cannot stand in the judgment and are blown away like chaffe.

This is not a new paradigm. And it is very much Jewish. Unless you think the above examples happen not to be in Jewish literature.

Psalm 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him."

7/29/2006 12:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Moshe ben Avraham said...

Nothing constructive to say? I take a most serious qualm with that. You have nothing to say or you would not alsways play that He's playing the Hitler card thing again. THAT MAKES ME SICK. If we can not talk openly about HItler and attach it to modern thinking;then you are supporting supression of real truths. I will NOT ACCEPT YOUR SHAME! You should be disgraced for not seeing how The dn of days is like HItler's actions. I did not speak lashon hara. I spoke HaShem;s law. P{eace and goodness shall reign throughout the world. YOU should be disgraced for believing in a blood bath. That infuriates me. I will accept HaShems' judegments for my actions and I will fight to defend them too. What cheapens the death of those millions of jews is trying to hide the ideology behind it and not seeing the relevance today. SHAME ON YOU for your blatant ignorance. Israel struggles day to day fighting Hitler thinking; destruction of the Jews. As for the judgement in Tenakh; that is irrelevant for the messianic days. When the messiah comes all will know who G-d is and there will be no need for a death and destruction. I will fight to defend Israel and the existance of Jews if it is the last thing I do!

7/29/2006 11:02:00 PM  
Blogger geoffrobinson said...


I honestly do not understand how you are linking a belief upon God's righteous judgment, which is a theme that runs throughout Scripture, and the Holocaust.

I think there is some assumption or some thinking you aren't bringing to the fore. Please feel free to explain yourself.

Please describe the original problem you had. "So before the messiah comes death and destruction come before hand to the none believers?"

There may be a typo or something in there. And since I'm very prone to typos, just restate your objection. Leave nothing in any hidden problems or assumptions you have.

That, I believe, will allow us to reboot the discussion and have a more productive dialogue.


7/29/2006 11:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Moshe ben Avraham said...

One. In my haste I made many grammaerical and technical errors. Sorry. Its quite funny reading it.
Two I get defensive when people accuse me of cheapening Jewish deaths. I consider that a low blow and unsophisticated.
Three Rich and chad use lashon hara too readily. Do they even know what that means? It is when one says something ill or negative to or about another person. I have spoken lashon hara many times, but nothing in my first post was lashon hara. I wonder if rich and chad use these words as magical trump cards?
Four. I was under the impression that we all knew mainstream Christian views of the end of days. Convert or die when Jesus comes. I consider that equilvalent to death and destruction and Nazi party policies. Hitler had people exected for not conforming to his parties ideaology. Not Jews or gypsies, but his own people.This is equivalent to Christian viewpoints of the end of days. I was suggesting with such beliefs; why would Christians mind the death of millions of Jews? After all, none of them believed in Jesus and Hitler was merely excelerating Jesus's job when he comes again.
Five Of course this is quite a nasty accusation and is dramatically overexeggerated, but I am quite upset with Middle East events and I lost some of my calm with chad's post.

7/30/2006 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger geoffrobinson said...


Thanks for the clariifcations.

This is the mainstream view held by Christians: When the Messiah comes back, he will judge everyone. Jew and Gentile. Living and dead. The righteous to everlasting life. The wicked to everlasting shame. (Daniel 12:2)

That is the mainstream view which has been confessed by the faithful.

The point we are making is that you have two options, as prefigured in the passing over those who had the lamb's blood on the door and Noah's arc. You can either be in the arc or out. You can be under the Lamb's blood or not. There is no third option.

"The name of the LORD is a strong tower; the righteous who run to it are safe." Proverbs 18:10

Either your sins are on the Messiah or they are on you.

Either you stand with your own righteousness (or lack thereof) or you stand with your his righteousness. As Jeremiah calls the Messiah: HaShem Tzidkenu, the LORD our righteousness.

Some believers in Jesus have beliefs that there will a bunch of tribulations and troubles before the Messiah comes back. No one I know who holds that believes that is a good thing. And it is not the Messiah doing the killing, which is what it seems you think we believe.

That is separate from the judgment of each person.

Now, I don't hold that view. But I don't think those that do believe that suffer from the faults you perceive. Unless you find the general judgment of all mankind (Jew and Gentile) horrible.

I share your concern about what is going on with in the Middle East and will be praying for the peace of Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6).

7/30/2006 09:05:00 PM  

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